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Hope Mississippi
A bimonthly podcast educating Mississippians about the needs of fellow citizens, encouraging residents to work together to change the trajectory of our families and children, and sharing success stories.
Hope Mississippi
MS State Bar 5 - Sweaty Suits and Straight Talk
At the 2025 Mississippi State Bar Convention, former State Supreme Court Justice Dawn Beam interviewed over 20 people in 3 days to bring you a special 7-part series of her Hope Mississippi podcast. This is part five of seven.
Hope isn’t a slogan here; it’s a practice you can feel in the room. We sit down with Judge David McCarty of the Mississippi Court of Appeals, Mississippi Gaming Commission Executive Director Jay McDaniel, and family-law veteran Richard Roberts to explore how justice, integrity, and everyday mentorship create real pathways forward—especially when the stakes are personal and the margin for error is thin.
Judge McCarty takes us behind the robe to the human pressure of getting cases right: the late nights, the worry, and the relief that the Court of Appeals exists to share the load and honor every appeal with careful review. He makes a compelling case for diversity on the bench, not as a buzzword, but as a practical safeguard against blind spots. When colleagues with different life experiences challenge each other, reason improves and public trust grows. He also shares a simple habit: a nightly gratitude journal, which helps him maintain perspective amid Mississippi’s beauty and its inequities.
Jay McDaniel connects legal training to real-world regulation, explaining how analytical thinking and ethics guide hard calls in gaming: enforcing rules, addressing gray areas, and balancing tourism, tax revenue, and problem gambling resources. His reflection on Katrina-era leadership demonstrates how adaptive law and clear priorities helped casinos and thousands of families rebuild stronger on the Coast. For students and mid‑career professionals, his message is energizing: your background is a springboard, not a barrier.
Richard C. Roberts III then opens the door to family law, where counsel often means cooling the room before you heat up the record. He explains why reputation and professionalism are non‑negotiable in a small legal community and how wise decisions in the most emotional moments can save years of pain. When clients can’t see past the storm, a steady lawyer helps them find the path, and sometimes, to their surprise, the light returns.
If you believe your word is your bond, if you care about fair courts, and if you’ve ever needed someone to open a door for you, this conversation will meet you where you are and nudge you a step forward. Subscribe, share this with a friend who needs a lift, and leave a review with one word that gives you hope today.
Hope Mississippi's Mission: The sobering reality remains: one in four Mississippi children lives in poverty, and one in five experiences food insecurity. These statistics aren't just numbers—they're our collective challenge. Through these conversations, we discover that Mississippi's transformation occurs through individual commitments to mentor, encourage, and be present for others. The small acts of hope accumulate into the broader "miracles" we celebrate.
Join us for new episodes on the 1st and 15th of each month as we continue sharing stories of transformation from across Mississippi. Each story
Join us for new episodes on the 1st and 15th of each month as we continue sharing stories of transformation from across Mississippi. Each story reminds us that when we contribute our unique gifts, Mississippi rises together.
Hope Mississippi's Mission: The sobering reality remains: one in four Mississippi children lives in poverty, and one in five experiences food insecurity. These statistics aren't just numbers—they're our collective challenge. Through these conversations, we discover that Mississippi's transformation occurs through individual commitments to mentor, encourage, and be present for others. The small acts of hope accumulate into the broader "miracles" we celebrate.
Free on the elphonic production. Polephonic.com.
SPEAKER_00:One in four kids live in poverty.
SPEAKER_03:One in five food pride.
SPEAKER_01:Build collaboration and build hope with those who are struggling. Hello and welcome back to the Mississippi Bar Convention in Sandestin. And I have got my good friend, Judge David McCarty. Welcome.
SPEAKER_03:Thank you so much, Justice. It's such an honor to be here.
SPEAKER_01:You are one of my very, very favorite lawyers. Don't tell anybody else. And the reason is because I remember when you practice law and you practice with such a passion about doing the right thing. And really, that's what all of us are about.
SPEAKER_03:Yes, ma'am. In the best possible day, Justice, and thank you for saying that. I loved being a lawyer, served as a lawyer for 14 years until I was elected to the Court of Appeals in the fall of 2018. Moving from somebody who was meeting with people every day. I had a little bitty law office in downtown Jackson, meeting with people every day, talking to clients on the phone every day, being in court with people every day. And so it's been an adjustment over the years. I'll say that.
SPEAKER_01:No doubt. You know, I'm reminded before you went on to the Court of Appeals, you did a CLE for our appellate judges. And you talked about how nervous you were going before the court.
SPEAKER_03:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01:And talked about how, you know, after it, you could wring the sweat out of your shirt. And I'm thinking, bless his heart. I'm so sorry.
SPEAKER_03:Do you know, Justice, this is one of the things because you were on the court for many years before I got elected, and and knowing how you treated people made such an impact on me because not everybody is that way. Not every judge is thinking with empathy and care for the advocates before them, not because they're not good judges, but because there's so many other things going on. But you always centered your respect for people, your respect for how people were treated in and out of the courtroom. And I love that so much because I found it tough to argue before nine constitutional officers. I found it very intimidating. I found it thrilling, but it was a challenge.
SPEAKER_01:Well, and you know, at the end of the day, we all just wanted to get it right. And I know that's how y'all are now. When we would get out there, if we were all falling out, you could bet that we had studied the material and were ready. You may be nervous, but there were times where we were nervous because we just wanted to get it right.
SPEAKER_03:That's the burden that I that I love so much that I've been so privileged to see and experience myself because for lawyers, there's just this panel of people wearing black robes, and we literally sit above the courtroom. This is not to intimidate per se, but to show that you're presiding over this arena of justice. And knowing now how much we worry and sweat to get the details right and to make sure we get the right result, that gives me so much hope for what uh our judiciary does for the people in Mississippi and for where our j our judiciary is headed. As you know, Justice Sys is the 30th anniversary of the Court of Appeals. So we were founded, the legislature created us, and we went into operation in 1995. We had a severe backlog at the Mississippi Supreme Court, not because they weren't working hard, but because the number of appeals had exceeded what any nine people could do in a year. So there were a thousand appeals a year starting in 1985, running through 2005. Nine people cannot do that much work. So we like to think that we're working hard to continue to be a great backstop for the Supreme Court and a thing to help people achieve justice in Mississippi.
SPEAKER_01:As we talk to folks at this podcast, we want them to know about the hope in Mississippi, but I keep it as confidence in your judiciary. And so I've never met a perfect judge. I was not a perfect judge. And so for those that are do encounter the judicial system, there is a very independent review of what judges do.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, absolutely. And the best thing to justice, in my view, the Mississippi Supreme Court has nine people, the Court of Appeals has ten. And so we come from all backgrounds, all different faiths. We are now, as of this year, with the election of the honorable Amy Lasseter St. Hay from Moss Point, there are five men, there are five women, and no two men are alike, no two women are alike. So we've got people from the Delta, people from the Gulf Coast, people from Tupelo, people from Jackson. So every type of people, we check each other. So I'm a 50-year-old white man who grew up in Alabama. Whether I think I have blind spots, I'm also only five foot nine. So there's only so much I can see. Well, that's why my presiding judge, Virginia Carleton, originally of Columbia, she now lives in Jackson, is such a great helper to me and a wonderful mentor to me. She was in the military justice beam for over 20 years. She served there with her with her husband, Dr. Carleton. Dedicated public servants, dedicated uh servants to the United States. She has different views on things than me. She has more experiences than me. And so when I don't know how to do something, I can walk down the hallway and say, Judge, how would you do this? How does this work? That to me is when we see uh democracy in action, when we see our court system really flourish, when people begin to learn from each other and listen to each other.
SPEAKER_01:Folks out there need to be reassured that the judges that they elect, we are committed to doing the right thing, not what we want, but following the law and the rule of law.
SPEAKER_03:Absolutely. The best thing in the world for me is having her, having other people from different ages and walks of life who I can say, how do you read this? Do we see this the same way? Am I doing this right? And then to we if I'm not, someone can write a dissent and tell me, hey, you really got this wrong.
SPEAKER_01:Trust me, I know how that goes. I want to shift gears just a little bit. You talked about that your upbringing is different, but you and I have spent a good bit of time together talking about family. And one thing that we want to do is talk to people about hope in Mississippi and encourage young people to make a difference and adults as well, to bring along folks as you move, slow down long enough to encourage them. So let's talk about your past, how people have worked with you, and then how you get to do that same thing.
SPEAKER_03:You know, Justice, I am a combination of my parents, my grandparents, my aunts, my uncles. But for them, I would not be allowed to be here with you at the bar convention and Dustin sharing about this. You've heard a lot about my mama. She was a homemaker. She reared two children. That was a full-time job, by the way. And that's a job. My dad was a coal miner. We lived on the west side of Birmingham, and like his dad, he worked for U.S. Steel. There's a long history of coal mining in Alabama, in North Alabama, and that's what my grandfather did. My great-grandfather. I still have an uncle who's who works over in Concord, Alabama, underground. That's a tough life. These were people who worked every day. He was 500 feet underground. My mom was doing her best to parent us and teach us how to read. She was insistent that we learn how to read by the time we were four. So we had kindergarten in Alabama. Some of my friends in Mississippi didn't have that, but which we do have universal kindergarten now. But by the time we got to school, my sister and I could read, write, do a little bit of math. But that shaped us so much, Justice. Every time we we went to the same church as my grandparents, Sandusky Baptist, which is still there in Sandusky, Alabama. And then nearly every Sunday after church, we would go to my grandparents' house who lived three miles from us. This was just what life was to me. Not everybody gets that. I'm keenly aware of that as I age, that I'm a product of having my grandfather teach me out in the backyard. My grandmother babysit me, and she was a wonderful, thoughtful, she's now passed on, but that's where I probably got my moral core from was my grandmother, Dorothy Wynell McCarty.
SPEAKER_01:Ah. My mother was Dorothy as well. Let's talk just a minute. Most of us were not born with a silver spoon in our mouth. We know what it's like to work hard. And when you go before a judge, you can be confident that we're just like everybody else.
SPEAKER_03:Yes. Yes. I think that's so important because we literally wear the robe to obscure our identity, to say we're part of something larger. I'm no longer when I put my robe on, I'm no longer David McCarty, who lives in Jackson, Mississippi. I'm judge of the Court of Appeals. It's a privilege to do that, but I still have with me my experiences in my life. If you've got a panel of us and you've got Judge Carleton in the middle, this is a recent panel. You have Judge Carlton in the middle, you've got Judge John M. Finger who lives in Brandon. I'm gonna out him just as he also grew up in Alabama. There's a few of us running around. But you've got with Judge Carlton, you have somebody who literally was raising children on military basis in Germany when she was deployed, who literally was deployed to Iraq. You've got Judge Mfinger who literally chopped cotton when he was little and coached football when he was in law school where he could make his tuition. You've got somebody like me that worked in strip pits in North Alabama that used to operate a front-end loader. Those experiences are part of who you have. Yes, we're trained legal professionals. Judge Mfinger is an extraordinary wealth of information because he served as a circuit judge for 10 years and ranking in Madison before joining the Court of Appeals. But we have that in us. And so I always want people to remember that we are people a little bit. And I remember when me telling you that I would sweat so I would sweat through my shirt. You know, that's why I always wore a blue suit, dark blue, dark black. It doesn't show the sweat.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I'm proud of you. You're doing great on the Court of Appeals. One other thing, I have noticed how you bring folks along with you, you law students that you teach, you bring them along, challenge people out there, not just lawyers and judges, but the average person. You talked about how blessed you were to have family, but not everybody's that blessed. No, man. Challenge the folks to share hope throughout Mississippi.
SPEAKER_03:Y'all, please, so much. Think about the things sometimes. Just take a minute. I I've started to do this several years ago. I keep a gratitude journal. Every night before I go to bed, I write down a minimum of three things that I'm thankful for. And there are times when what I write down, I may have had a hard day, a hard day at work, hard day on the bench, but there are times when I write down that I'm thankful that my mom was there for me. I'm thankful that I can call my dad, who turns 75 in a couple of months, a couple of weeks. I'm thankful I can call him for advice now. Not everybody gets that. And for us to remember that other people don't always have the things that we get right now or that we had growing up. You know, Mississippi is the most beautiful, special, wonderful place I have ever been in my life, which is why it's my home. But it is a place where we have some deep inequality. We have challenges to education, challenges to health care. This is not to say that we're bad. It's to say that we have obstacles and we can fight through. But not everybody gets the same things you do. And so please remember somebody in that family, it's gonna be their first time going to college. Somebody in that family, it's gonna be their first time going to law school. Somebody in that family has never met a lawyer. They haven't met a judge. And and just remember that, not where you can put on airs or act in a way that you wouldn't, but to be thoughtful and go, how am I going to interact with this person and share myself with them and let them in? One of my favorite things of all time, and and I never met Willie Morris, the great writer from Yazoo City, but I had a lot of friends who did. And when he he would say that, you know, Mississippi is not a state, it's a club. And that can go a lot of different ways, negative, positive, but but for me, Justice, if it is a club, and I think you might be right, then I think it's incumbent on me to make sure the door is open.
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_03:And to bring people in and to tell them, this is the professor at Mississippi State who helped me. This is the professor at Mississippi College who taught me. This is the judge or Justice Don Beam who encouraged me and was kind and loving to me. And I want to be able to do for people what you always did for me in my career.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I can't thank you enough for sharing with us. You've been a huge cur encourager to my son, and I want to point that out as we close.
SPEAKER_03:I love Sam. Good man.
SPEAKER_01:You're gonna be a daddy in a few days. Thank you. Thank you for the folks that are listening. Stop and think how you can share hope today. Thanks so much.
SPEAKER_02:Hope, Mississippi, is your salvation.
SPEAKER_01:Hello and welcome to the Mississippi Bar Convention. You just never know who you're gonna meet at the Bar Convention. And I met Jay McDaniel. Tell the tell the folks out there hello.
SPEAKER_04:Good morning. Jay McDaniel, executive director of the Mississippi Gaming Commission. It's great to be here.
SPEAKER_01:It's great to have you. And you have a legacy of lawyers and judges in your family. Can you just tell a little bit about yourself and your family?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, absolutely. I grew up in uh Brandon, Mississippi. Uh my father was an attorney. He practiced as a judge for most of his career. At some point, he was also a U.S. attorney. He had me coming here to this convention when I was a little child. I loved it. Kind of groomed me. He he told me not to become an attorney, but uh despite his advice, I did, and I'm glad I did, and I think he's glad I did. But yeah, so my father is well known in Rankin County and around the state, and so I went to Mississippi College School of Law and still work and live in the Jackson area.
SPEAKER_01:Tell me, what brought you to the law? I know you grew up coming to the Bar Convention and you knew your dad was a lawyer, but why be a lawyer?
SPEAKER_04:Like I said, he worked for the federal government, worked as a judge for the state. And I I thought that I wanted to do something like that, whether it was a prosecutor or a judge. And so undergrad, though, he said, go get you a degree, try something else first. So I got an accounting degree, practiced for a few years in accounting, and then decided to go back. I was about 30 years old. I said, you know, I really, law is just, I love it. I got to know it even as an accountant. I enrolled at Mississippi College School of Law and I thought I was going to do the public servant thing. I did practice with a law firm for about three years, and then this job with the Mississippi Gaming Commission came open. I went back into that and I was his deputy director for a few years. What I found was my law degree was crucial in that role, and it's crucial in my role now because even if you're not practicing law or in court, the the legal questions that come up every day, you know, the ethical questions, the things that law school and law practice groomy for really set up well for this job. So I'm glad I did it.
SPEAKER_01:In part, we're talking to possible law students. And I'm reminded you had an accounting degree, I had a business degree. But you know, when people are trying to figure out what do I need to major in if I want to go to law school, there is a variety of avenues. And certainly your accounting degree makes a difference, right? Trevor Burrus, Jr.
SPEAKER_04:Sure, great point. I mean, I've worked with lawyers that were engineers, some even doctors decide to go to law school. So, you know, depending on what kind of practice you're gonna do, there's an all manner of basis that can help you. But I do think accounting, finance, business, certainly if you're gonna run your own law firm, those things come, you know, they they joke sometimes lawyers can make poor business managers or doctors the same way. But just having that basis of anything, because no matter what you practice, you're gonna come across a case at some point that has those kind of issues, uh financial issues or, you know, the issues that maybe an engineer might encounter in a big complex litigation case. So I would encourage if even if a student looks at law school in the future, think of a of a good base major because it doesn't really matter. It's gonna help you, I guarantee you, somewhere down the down the line.
SPEAKER_01:And you know, being a lawyer is so flexible. Not everybody is that Perry Mason that runs in the courtroom and has that surprise witness. But we are trained to think analytically, to think from a standpoint of right and wrong and ethics. Can you speak to that certainly as the gaming commission?
SPEAKER_04:Yes, absolutely. I mean, one of the most important things for a lawyer is to look. You you've got to be an advocate for your client and fight your client's case, but you've got to look at all sides of it, because that helps you with your argument. You know, what is this, what is this opponent thinking? You know, where are they coming at this from? And and as director of the gaming commission, that's what I have to do. We we have laws and rules we have to enforce, but sometimes there's gray areas in there. Sometimes we have to make determinations, so we have to resolve ambiguities. And so it's very important to look at things analytically and say, you know, what was the legislature thinking when they wrote this law 20 years ago? Uh, what has changed since then? And when you're in practice, that comes up a lot. You're dealing a lot of times with laws and cases that were resolved in the 80s and the 90s, and you have to look at, well, well, how would this apply today? So a good analytical mind and being able to look at things from all points of view and then advocate with that, you know, in mind.
SPEAKER_01:So when we're talking about hope, Mississippi, one great quality in Mississippi is that our word is our bond, whether that be in a casino, if you're placing a bet, you know that the rules are being followed or in business. So could you just speak to that, the importance of our word being our bond and that the justice system ensures that?
SPEAKER_04:That's a great point. Your your word is your bond. Your reputation is everything. You're not gonna win every case. You're gonna have times you get knocked down, but stay true to yourself. You know, remember why you got into this profession when you took that oath and and just carry that through in your mission. And like you said, no matter what area you're working in, I really never thought I'd be a gaming regulator. But all of the things I did before that prepared me for this, and I can draw on what my dad did, the things I learned growing up, the things I was taught in law school. But keeping that hope, as you mentioned, that no matter where I am, as long as I'm true to myself, apply the law with dignity, honestly, you're gonna be well regarded and you're gonna you're gonna come out on the right end end of things.
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely. Let's talk to Mississippians out there. You know, we have lots of challenges. One in four of our kids live in poverty, one in five are food deprived. And certainly gaming, let's talk about that. Gaming does play a role in helping our state overcome, right? You have profits that go to help us.
SPEAKER_04:Absolutely. I mean, one of the reasons gaming, well, the the reason really, gaming was passed in in 1990 and 1991 was a tax revenue generator. You had an entertainment industry that could benefit the state from a tourism standpoint. But on the other end, those tax revenues go to a state that has had trouble raising taxes. So our hope is that the people that play are playing with money they can afford to play with.
SPEAKER_01:Amen.
SPEAKER_04:We do point to problem gambling resources when that's not the case, because unfortunately that happens. But we try and identify that and make sure that the people playing are doing it because they have the funds. That money that's won by the properties, not only do you have the tax revenue, but they're reinvesting. They're hiring people in our coastal and river counties, they're putting money back into philanthropy, things like that. Also on a local, city, and county level, you know, going to schools and infrastructure. So it is an industry that we want to do right. We want it to do right because we want it to make money for our state. And then it is up to the legislature and the local city and county to make sure those funds get to the right place.
SPEAKER_01:You know, we heard Governor Haley Barber speak yesterday. And after Katrina, the question was, oh my goodness, what can we do to make sure that gaming continues because Mississippi relies on that revenue to help make a difference.
SPEAKER_04:That's right. When Katrina, it wiped out the coastal uh, you know, you had a lot of families, a lot of businesses suffering, and the the casinos were not immune to that. Every one of them was shut down for months. And every month they're closed. That's months of hundreds of millions of tax revenue not coming in. So Governor Barber and the leadership at that time did a great job. They changed the rules a little bit, said, you know, you can shore up your casinos, you can move them inland if you want, and they came back better. As much of the coast did, I think uh it has come back better. And uh and his leadership, I applaud the leaders that were in place in that time. And and God forbid we ever encounter another disaster like that. I feel strong that our leadership's day would act the same way. Do whatever it can to rebuild better.
SPEAKER_01:So, and a final note, we want to encourage Mississippians. If you're young, make a goal to make a difference in Mississippi. If you've reached middle age or older, reach back and encourage others. Can you speak to that?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, absolutely. That's what I would encourage those. I like I said, I went to law school when I was 30. There were probably times in my mid-20s when I felt like I was in a rut. I was like, is this it? I, you know, I've I've found my degree. I'm doing, I wasn't really doing something I enjoyed. And but what I did was say, you know, I can get myself out of this. I it's not too late to go back to school. And yeah, just always know that you you've got your brain, you've got, you've got a smart mind, you've got a, you know, a heart for something, passion for something. It's never too late to go back and do it. And so just never feel like there's not an opportunity for you. There are people out there that will help you get it. Just uh make sure, like you said, look back. What did I want 10 years ago? And if I'm not doing it now, why am I not doing it? And uh and find a way to do it.
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely. And you know, there's joy in pulling people along. I've I've experienced this at the Bar convention as I've seen people that I've helped along the way. So we encourage folks to reach back and bring people forward.
SPEAKER_04:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, thank you so much for joining me. I told you it would be punished. It's great.
SPEAKER_04:It's a pleasure.
SPEAKER_01:And I encourage the folks that are listening, make hope happen wherever you are. Hope, Mississippi, is your salvation. Welcome back. I am so glad to have my friend Richard Roberts here today. Welcome.
SPEAKER_05:Thank you. Nice to be here.
SPEAKER_01:Richard and I, we have practiced law together, right?
SPEAKER_05:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:I have known you in so many different ways. Could you just tell the folks a little bit about yourself and the folks that helped you along the way to become the person that you are?
SPEAKER_05:Well, I started practicing law 49 years ago. I did well in school, so I was able to go basically where I wanted to go. I went with a firm that uh did employment discrimination representing big companies. And after several years of that, I decided to go into private practice by myself, and I was a solo practitioner for many years, and then started taking on associates and partners, and now I have uh two partners, David Bridges and Jennifer Woidston. We practice exclusively family law in Ridgeland, Mississippi. Completely different from what I started out doing. If you had told me in law school I was going to be a divorce lawyer, I I would have told you you're crazy. But uh that's how things worked out, and it's been my area of service, and that's how I look at it. People who have helped me along the way, guys, are too many to name, but certainly a lot of my law professors, Gough Abbott, cops to mine, uh just so many. And then people I practice law with, people I practice law against, judges. I remember when you were chancellor, I remember when you were chairman of the family law section, just all kind of grown up in that. So there's so many people that are influencing us as we progress in our law practice.
SPEAKER_01:You know, we're here at the Bar Convention and lay people sometimes don't understand the relationship that lawyers have. It's a it's a relationship of trust and open communication. You need to know that when I'm representing someone, I'm representing the truth. And I don't know about you, but along the way I've developed my short list of a few folks I couldn't trust, but there's so many more that I would take what they say to the bank.
SPEAKER_05:It's a it's a small community in the family law section. And so it takes a long time to gain trust and it can be lost quickly. So you have to guard that because your reputation is very important. You know, Proverbs says a good name is to be valued in silver and gold. So you have to take that to heart.
SPEAKER_01:So when we talk about the bar in particular, folks need to know that we do value our character and that it's important that we always deal in an honest and fair manner. And that's the key to our justice system, isn't it?
SPEAKER_05:I agree completely.
SPEAKER_01:You know, as a judge, I I knew who I could trust and who I couldn't. So you want that lawyer that has credibility with the court. And we would just encourage folks to understand that that we may have coffee together, but at the end of the day, our goal is to do the right thing and to advocate for our clients.
SPEAKER_05:That's right. That's right. And professionalism is so much a part of it. Advocacy is professionalism at a high level where you can advocate for your client, you can argue your legal positions, it does not get personal. It does not there's no need for animosity. It's your position, your client's position that you're advocating for, you're trying to advance.
SPEAKER_01:Let's talk about family law, because that's a very unique area. And what brought you to that area?
SPEAKER_05:I went out on my own. Whatever came across the threshold, I took in. You know, I call myself a threshold lawyer, whatever I did. And I had never been in a chancery court, except one time I went down to Kapaya County, which carried the chancellor down there, to get an injunction and a strike. So I had never been in state court. All of my work was in federal court. And I liked federal court. I did federal court litigation. It's very rules-based, and everybody knows what the rules of the game are. Now, back then, the Mississippi rules of civil procedure were just being adopted, finite rules, very much like the federal rules of civil procedure. So it was easier to learn that than all of the myriad rules that existed in state court practice for so many years. Matter of fact, when I first started in practice, many of the older lawyers would say, let's just practice this on the under the old rules, okay? So uh there was a learning curve there, but I enjoyed it. And, you know, you do one family law case, one divorce case, and then they refer you to somebody else, and then you're doing more than one, and then you're doing many more, and it soon got to be about a third of my law practice. I was doing a general litigation, still doing employment law on both sides, and then more and more family law. But I enjoyed the family law. And I was representing banks and hospitals and so forth. I was working with presidents and HR directors and vice presidents, and the litigation was serious. But at the end of the day, it wasn't their life, it wasn't their money, it wasn't their children, it was impersonal in a lot of ways. And employment law was a very contentious area of the law back in the 70s and early 80s. So it was it was a hard practice, but it was still not personal. Now, family law is completely different. Some of my best friends, truly best friends, are former clients of mine. We've been in the foxhole together and we're just formed fast friendships. And when you're representing a family law client, for most people it is the most significant legal event that's ever going to happen in their life. They may have been in a loan closing, they may have had a little car wreck along the way, but and it could be a serious car wreck. But for most people, a divorce is life changing. It has effect not only on the immediate family, the children, both the spouses, the nieces, the uncles, the aunts, the brothers, the sisters, the grandparents but it resonates through friendships, and for some reason people are People seem to think that they have to choose sides in a divorce case. I'm either the wife's friends or the husband's friend. It's hard for people to understand that you can continue your friendship with both people. It's not you're not a traitor because you continue your friendship. But many people think that way. In divorce cases, it's it's life-changing for them. And you have an opportunity. My view is that I have an opportunity to help somebody in the most significant legal event, maybe the most significant social event, the most significant financial event that they will ever face in their lives. And so that is an extreme amount of responsibility, one that I've always taken very seriously. It requires study, it requires preparation, it requires a lot of skills, a lot of trial skills, a lot of research skills, a lot of writing skills that all have to come together that in so many other areas of the law are omitted. Many transaction lawyers wouldn't begin to know how to try a lawsuit. But we do transactions all the time. And the end of the day, most divorcers are settled through contracts. So we're drafting contracts. Many times there's significant financial issues involved, retirement plans. Well, we're not tax lawyers, but we can point them in the right direction, and we know the basic guidelines for dealing with a lot of that. So I like the diversity of family law practice, the different issues that you have to address and the different uh areas of law you have to study and be become proficient at.
SPEAKER_01:You know, I reflect on times where I've gone through emotional challenges, and divorce is certainly an emotional challenge. And a lot of times you just need wise counsel. And so it's a very rewarding area of the law. Would you not agree?
SPEAKER_05:Aaron Powell I certainly would. And you mentioned counseling. That's that's so much a part of what we do. People don't understand that it's not all about the litigation. It's about avoiding litigation in many and tamping down the fires. And divorce law, you'll see explosion after explosion of emotion. It's good to tell people on the front end, you know, this is how it's going to be. There's going to be lots of explosions, and we tamp down those fires and try to make good decisions. I've seen brilliant businessmen who have no problem making any tough decision in business that cannot make a decision in a divorce case, or they make bad decisions, or they want to make a bad decision. It's our job to help them make good decisions in tough times.
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely. You know, when fifty percent of marriages end in divorce, folks need to know they're lawyers like me and you that are out there and want to bring hope to a very, very difficult situation.
SPEAKER_05:They need to see that there is light at the end of the tunnel. And so many clients say, I'll never get married again. Yes, you will. Here's why. They don't want to believe it, but they'll call me later. You're not gonna believe it. I'm a the most wonderful person. I told you.
SPEAKER_01:Isn't that so wonderful? Okay, if you're listening today, have faith in our judicial system. I should have pointed out, Richard, that you're a former president of the bar, and so you have led the way. Lawyers are here to help you. And if you're going through a difficult time, recognize if it's a family issue, there are emotions involved, but there are lawyers like Richard that are out there to help you. One final say.
SPEAKER_05:Well, thank you. I enjoyed doing this. Uh huh. Uh we kind of did it off the cuff, but I enjoyed it.
SPEAKER_01:Thanks so much for joining us.
SPEAKER_02:Thank you.com.
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